In this episode:

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Wendy: Hello, everyone. I'm
Wendy Liebmann. I'm the CEO and

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chief shopper at WSL Strategic
Retail, and this is Future Shop.

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This is where I talk to kind of
class disruptors, big thinkers

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about the future of retail.

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Today, I have a very big
thinker. His name is Justin

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Honaman. Welcome, Justin.

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Justin: Hey, it's great to be
here and good to be with you.

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What? Twice in like three weeks.
So it's great. Thanks for the

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invite.

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Wendy: It's a luxury right?
Well, let me just try and

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paraphrase what the heck it is
you do. And then you can tell us

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a little bit more. I'm going to
read this because it's quite a

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convoluted title. Justin, as the
Head of Worldwide Retail, and

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Consumer Goods, Go-to-Market at
Amazon Web Services. Tell us a

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little bit about what that title
actually really means that

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Amazon

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Justin: I lead our worldwide
retail and consumer goods go to

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market team. Yes, I sit within
AWS, Amazon Web Services that I

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work with. And my team works
with the vast majority of

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retailers and consumer goods
companies worldwide that engage

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with an interface with AWS and
actually broader Amazon. And the

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big idea is how do you bring
capability systems process and

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thinking around innovation to
these customers to help them go

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further, faster? Like that's the
bottom line of what we're here

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to do. I also am the segment
lead for food and beverage 10

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years at Coca Cola and quite a
few years since that time, in

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consumer goods and retail, and
we engage together in the

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industry. And so hence how we
connected a lot of good

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connection points with you and
our networks.

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Wendy: No, it was exciting when
we first met. And of course, the

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first question out of my mouth
is always Oh, come on the

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podcast and have a chat. So I'm
glad we got to do this so

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quickly. You know what struck me
when you were talking about the

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sort of broader view that you
have going to think about you in

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the cloud, right in the not just
the Amazon cloud. But in the

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world cloud of all things
consumer products and retail you

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published just at the end of the
year, early this year, you're

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thinking piece on what the key
trends were for 2023. And I was

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taken with them because it's a
unique lens. I mean, it's got a

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very strong digital perspective
to it. So I wanted to pull out a

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couple of those and just have a
chat about it, because I think

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you bring that compelling view.
But one that first hit me, which

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is sort of the hot new topic of
the day is retail media

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networks. And so my question to
you is, is it all huff and puff?

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Or are we really somewhere in
these things that are retail

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media and networks? Are they
adding value to shoppers not

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just monetization for retailers?

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Justin: Yeah, that's a great
question. So just to give your

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listeners a little bit of
context, every year I write a

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piece for RS News on trends and
retail for the year. And it's a

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lot of fun. Because it's a
prospective piece. It's an idea

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that puts ideas together around
potential focus not only on

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technology, but process and
people thinking about the

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industry for the year. Yeah,
retail media networks is

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definitely what it would make
the buzzword bingo card for

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2023. And it Israel. There are
real solutions around it. But

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it's not just I'd say buzz or
you know, a concept. The idea

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here is using instore messaging,
basically dynamic messaging to

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allow brands to reach consumers
and in somewhat of a one to one

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fashion right and with trade
execution dollars with spent

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with that retailer to put your
brand in front of a customer or

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shopper in near real time. So
it's very unique because as you

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know, when retail stores is
typically put a display in or

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put signage in or put an a
shipper in, and it's there for a

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period of time, but it's not
dynamic, right? It's there for a

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set period of time. And a
purchase. I'll call it by a

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consumer goods brand. And so
what's interesting about this is

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it's a more dynamic way of
allowing consumer goods

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companies to work with the
retailer to reach the consumer.

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So that's what's really
interesting, and yes, I think

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we'll see more of it.

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Wendy: I also think done, right?
That whole notion of

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personalization using the
retailer's data, assuming it's

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good data, to be able to, sorry,
excuse my cynicism, but good

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first party data and other I
suspect, but able to target more

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effectively, what I'm seeing as
a shopper and not just seeing

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the sort of mass as you said,
the mass static display

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presentation message because I
think that's the thing that that

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feels to me like it's where the
excitement is. If the message

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feels right to me at that time,
then I can respond appropriately

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rather than just walking by to
the clutter kind of thing.

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Justin: Yeah, I think it's like
a triple win. So it's a win for

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the brand, let's pick a
Kellogg's or a Coca Cola or

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PepsiCo or the major brand or
small brands even right, that

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don't typically have access to
one to one consumer data or

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shopper data, they have to get
that through a retailer or

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through like, they have to buy
it through Nielsen, or IRI. So

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there could be a win there for
the brand in terms of being able

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to reach the customer work
dynamically, the second win

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would be for the retailer,
right? So the retailer is now

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going to monetize that space. So
it's an incremental revenue

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opportunity for the retail shop
owner, I'll call it. And then

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for the actual shopper, like you
and I that are in the store, I

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can have faster access,
potentially, to coupons to buy

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gets in store, or just awareness
of new brands. I think that's

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another interesting play for
retail media networks. But all

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of this comes down to data, and
you said it. So like who's going

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to own that data, and then use
the data to serve up and or kind

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of curate that presentation of
content. And that part, I think,

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is the part that you know,
that's where you're seeing some

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of the technology players try to
play a role. It's interesting,

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Wendy: I spent actually, myself
and several about team we spent

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last week couple of days
facilitating an event with one

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of the retailers and their newly
formed retail media network of

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about a retail and media team,
so far, 14 people, and soon to

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be even more, so from the ground
up. And it was fascinating,

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because our role was to remind
them that actually what they do

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in the end has to deliver value
to the shopper. So not just

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okay, we want to put an ad here
or push out a coupon here or

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whatever. But actually, if you
don't bring value to the

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shopper, stored online, whatever
it is, then you can charge the

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vendors that for a long time,
but the shopper is going to get

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pretty annoyed about the over
whelming amount of clutter in

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their brain. And I say, so it
was really interesting. And what

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we actually did was one of our
retail safaris, we sort of

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facilitated a day. But then we
took them into places, not

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necessarily competitive type
stores, places that were using

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different in person, digital and
physical tools to engage

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shoppers. So we went everywhere,
from banks, to museums, to

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regular stores to see how
they're actually engaging. So it

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was it was interesting on
several levels, one that there

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were 40 people who didn't
basically exist in the space,

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you know, six months ago. And
just the focus, which I thought

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was impressive on. Remember,
we've got to bring value to the

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shopper.

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Justin: Yeah. And we're still
early days. Right? What's

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interesting here is, you know,
back to your first question,

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it's it is real, and there are
real solutions for it. But how

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do you deploy it in a way that
still fits with the brand set in

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the store? You don't? I mean,
there's still fits with how the

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experiences are you want the
experience to be in the store?

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So I think there's some work to
be done there. And then how do

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you use the data? And also, on
the consumer product side,

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you're probably going to take
some dollars out of your trade

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spend and put it here. So like,
where does that bucket of money

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come from? Is it net new
dollars? Or is it you're

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shifting money from other
typical buckets where you might

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spend trade dollar? So I think
that's going to be interesting

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to see how that plays out.

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Wendy: Yeah. And actually, we
accosted I'm always shopping to

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pick them the store, shoppers
and others and we accosted a CPG

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fellow who was in one of the
stores and said, What are you

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doing? And he said, Well, it's
an add. And I said, Oh, lucky

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you because the brand people
were going to have that budget,

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and he was going to keep his
trade spend. And they said,

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Well, I'll talk to you in a few
months cynical Wendy, let's see

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what that looks like. But
anyway, but you're right

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question to be asked. Yeah,

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Justin: it'll be interesting to
see.

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Wendy: I think that's true.

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Justin: Like, yes, the retailers
are hoping it's an end,

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additional income stream that's
those retailers will be hoping

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for that.

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Wendy: Of course, always and
right. We love them desperately.

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But it's always an add. The
other thing you talked about,

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and when I first read it in the
piece you wrote, I

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misinterpreted because you
talked about immersiveness. And

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I immediately thought, oh,
immersion, oh, this is where I

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walk into an amazing physical
space. And I can smell things

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and taste things and see things
and touch and feel and all of

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that. And then I realized you're
actually talking about more

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digital immersion and the
infamous second word for the

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bingo card. Metaverse, right?
And other things. So again,

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Metaverse, yes, no, come in, go
going. Who the hell flip the

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coin. What's the story here?

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Justin: Okay, so yeah, immersive
is another buzzword for the year

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and parts of it are real. So in
the definition of how I wrote

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about this, I talked about
personalization. I talked about

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AR and VR, which are real. I
talked about virtual stores

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virtual try-on, which there are
some great examples of those out

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there and 3D images is really
taking new life now for E

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commerce shopping. Even virtual
stores for consumer goods brands

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like you could have a store
without having actual store

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where you could curate products
for a consumer or a customer to

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buy. Okay, so all of those
things I mentioned are real and

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evolving. And so what we have
seen over the last 12 months is

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a real shift back into immersive
experiences in store and online.

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So the things I just mentioned,
most of those are ecommerce or

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online technologies. And like
the thing you said at the

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beginning around the look and
feel and smell and layout and

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design and like checkout
technology, there's a lot of

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work happening around the store
again, in store, like it's very

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exciting. And so on both sides,
there is this whole idea of

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immersive and like experiential
focus around the guest or the

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customer Metaverse, very
exciting topic. I always ask

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groups that I'm talking to to
how many of you are testing

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this? How many of you are using
this? How many of you are not

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going to think it's not gone
down the list? The jury's still

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out in terms of how to use it in
a constructive and profitable

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way. A lot of experimentation
happening around it. I'll tell

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you in lots of technology
partners making up solutions for

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the metaverse, so I'd say it's
still in the a lot of companies

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are experimenting,
investigating, looking to see

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what others are doing. That's
largely what I would tell you is

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happening on the retail side.

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Wendy: So two things there. I'm
going to do the metaverse first

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and then remind me about
checkouts. Because I'll forget I

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know I forget that. But on the
metaverse thing. What's

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interesting to me, we just
finished some of our latest

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research, How America Shops®
research, we called Plan

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Disruption on the shop of
planning their own disruption

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and disrupting everybody else's
life. And we saw about three out

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of 10 people report there in the
metaverse with some considerable

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regularity. Three quarters of
them are there every week, you

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know, doing lots of different
things. Some of it's got a

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gaming, you know, whatever. What
I found really interesting about

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it was actually what they were
doing there, and from a shopping

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standpoint or beyond gaming
directly, but some of them were

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doing things like buying clothes
for their avatars, I get that, I

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want my avatar looking fabulous
in Nike or taxon or something.

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But the other was concepts,
which I thought was really

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interesting, speaking about
experiential, as well as

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immersive, to be at a concert.
And the other couple that I

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found were interesting were
exercise classes. So I had sort

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of the Peloton, Lululemon kind
of thing and thinking how useful

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it is I do it on my bike now in
some ways I do not but others

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do. What does that look like?
And then the last one was pets,

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anything pets, which I found
talks to a lot of different

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things, of course. But I just
found the usage beyond the sort

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of obvious to that relevant,
value oriented.

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Justin: I think it's really
interesting because this is

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where you see capabilities come
together that bring together

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digital or marketing and
technology. And it's part of

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what has driven the real
expansion and explosion and

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cloud capability in retail and
consumer goods. And for the most

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part like retailers and CPG
brands are behind in the whole

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cloud journey. But that has
accelerated the last year, year

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and a half because of an
interest in focus on some of

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these new capabilities and
solutions.

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Wendy: Yeah, I mean, I can see
it being a fashionista in my own

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way. You know, I can see that
ability to be part of a fashion

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show, feeling like I'm there
loving music being at a concert,

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things like that. So you can,
it's important not to dismiss

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it. At this point in time. I'm
thinking you're saying the same

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thing on all of that, that to
the other technology in terms of

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the Mercer checkout. Of course,
like other retail specialists,

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Chief shoppers, I was in the
first Amazon Go store in

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Seattle, you know, it took me
aback, I'd actually my last trip

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before the world closed down in
2020 was to was to Seattle, and

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I went back to the Go store. And
in that first store now there

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was a maybe it was there the
first time and I forgot because

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the line was so long, and there
was a liquor department. And the

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thing that was interesting to me
was it was manned there was a

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fellow in the liquor department
because he had to check my card.

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Nice of him, check my card. But
it struck me in two ways. One is

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I love the idea of go, I love
the idea of walking in checking

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out feeling like I stole
something but knowing I didn't

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have to even bother, right, it's
me. But when I noticed in the

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store, I don't know if it's
still there. But with the liquor

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department, you still had the
ability to talk to somebody. And

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actually if I talked to him
about wine and said, Oh, these

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are all Washington State wines
or these are Oregon wines, why

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we had this fabulous
conversation. So it was this

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amazing blend of you know, click
and go. And yes, but if you

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wanted to, there was somebody to
talk to and it felt so right. So

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I don't know how you feel about
all of that with all the

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checkout technologies and some
of the things that are emerging

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but all here

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Justin: well, so Yeah, another
space or another word for

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everyone's for focus this year
is frictionless, right? And when

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we talk about checkout
technology or checkout function,

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the idea here is how do you take
that part of the shopping

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process and make it simpler,
easier, less friction, right for

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the guests in the store. And so
hence why you've seen a real

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explosion or a real investment
in for companies in new

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technologies, new ways of
checking out and whatnot in

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store. So with Amazon, yes,
there's Amazon, ghost stores,

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some of you have been to. And
the way that that works in the

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Amazon store is you scan a QR
code on your amazon.com app, it

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opens the door. And computer
vision and sensors on the

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shelves will allow you to build
a virtual basket of products or

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no basket and put it in your
pocket. And then walk out when

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you just walk out. Hence the
name, your credit card is

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charged for your Amazon account
that that's the case in an

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Amazon Go store or an Amazon
Fresh store, for example, our

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grocery concept. There are also
other retailers though that use

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the just walk out setup than
their store. So their store,

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it's called a store kit. And in
those cases, you could use

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Amazon one which allows you to
validate with your palm that's

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linked to a credit card, or use
just a credit card to enter the

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store. And then again, build
your virtual cart and just walk

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out and your credit card is
charged. So that space, there's

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a lot of new interest in it and
checkout, but also other parts

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of the store. If you go to one
of our fresh stores, you'll see

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Alexa devices and you can say
hey, Alexa, where do I find the

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low fat, Jeff peanut butter, and
it tells you the aisle and the

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shelf number and you're
instantly right. Amazon also in

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the Whole Foods stores and a
select Whole Foods source and

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select fresh stores as new dash
cards where you push a cart and

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scan product, put it in your
cart and just walk out. There's

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a lot of innovation happening
around the store. It's an

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exciting time in retail, it's
exciting time in store as much

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as online. And I think we'll see
a lot more just across the

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industry in terms of
investments. One thing though,

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in order to make a lot of this
work and putting tech in legacy

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stores, and retail is the
infrastructure, so you got to

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have, you know, the bandwidth
and the capability to support

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new technology. So where you see
this really happening is in

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retrofits and new store build
outs.

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Wendy: And that is one of the
things I mean we know as

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shoppers right, we go into a
store, before we did this

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immersion the other day, as I
mentioned, we made everybody

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download any of the apps any of
the things they would need from

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where they were because we were
in there in a space that had

305
00:17:40,410 --> 00:17:43,980
very good Wi Fi. And then
because we knew that, you know,

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you walk into a store and you're
trying to look something up, or

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you're trying to you know,
whatever. And it's exactly what

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you said that the infrastructure
is not there. I do recall, it is

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interesting, because I remember
I think one of the first

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AmazonFresh stores in I think
was Silver Lake or somewhere in

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Los Angeles going into and you
know, loving the idea of I can

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say okay, you know, what will I
make to dentists? And I click

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here, Alexa, I shouldn't say
that too loudly. Right?

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Something will go on in the
house, and we'll hear

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everything. But that whole piece
and then thinking about novelty

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versus usefulness? And how does
that help me in all of that? So

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I think you know, as you say,

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Justin: That's right. For
example, though, if you had like

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00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,350
one interesting thing. On the
new dash cards, if you have your

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shopping list, there are like a
shopping list of use before

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00:18:28,590 --> 00:18:32,550
you're logged into the retailers
app, for example, it could save

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you time it could show you
things that you've bought before

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also show you like what's on
sale or coupons are available.

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So there is a mash up of digital
and physical that I think is

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coming in store. And like I said
it's really exciting time to be

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in our industry. Just the last
couple really a year or two

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00:18:48,750 --> 00:18:51,930
we've just seen an acceleration
and investment in innovation.

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Wendy: Yeah, which is exciting
and leads me to the next piece

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00:18:55,890 --> 00:18:58,950
that you wrote about on that
we've been looking at a lot is

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the role of the store. So there
was that, you know, massive Oh

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my heavens and stories dead you
know, all of that. Then we went

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through the pandemic and we
realized the only person we ever

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talk to was the frontline worker
at the drugstore at the

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00:19:10,230 --> 00:19:13,680
supermarket, right? They were
grateful when my AmazonFresh did

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00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:17,040
not get delivered or whatever,
don't let's have not, won't have

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00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,260
that conversation. I'm not
blaming you for the ills of the

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00:19:19,260 --> 00:19:22,860
world with an eye on it. But
that whole just sense of the

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00:19:22,860 --> 00:19:26,880
store we know in our life, at
least long ish life, that most

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00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:31,680
things don't go away. They just
keep evolving or revolving. And

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00:19:31,710 --> 00:19:34,710
what I think is so interesting
is again, in some of the work

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00:19:34,710 --> 00:19:38,820
we've done this whole focus on
the role of the store and to

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00:19:38,820 --> 00:19:41,670
your point, one of the things
we've seen in this new work is

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you know the fact the store
becoming kind of Discovery Zone

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again, you know, I can get so
much of the basics done, online

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delivered or pick up at the
curb, whatever, get it off the

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list and then now's the time. I
can go if I'm looking for

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something new. I can go into the
store and hopefully it's well

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00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,630
merchandising all of that. But
that, to me is an interesting

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00:20:03,750 --> 00:20:06,450
evolution of the store beyond
the you know, I've run out of

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00:20:06,450 --> 00:20:10,350
milk quickly run in, I can't get
my delivery in two hours.

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00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:12,810
Justin: Agree, it'd be
interesting to be interesting to

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00:20:12,810 --> 00:20:15,960
watch loyalty. Also, you know,
we haven't, like loyalty

353
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,320
programs have had their highs
and lows over the years. So I

354
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,380
think that's an area that keep
an eye on I didn't write about

355
00:20:22,380 --> 00:20:24,780
it, and but it's one of those
things I think is worth

356
00:20:24,780 --> 00:20:28,320
watching. Because you're gonna
have more and more data on the

357
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,720
shopper, like the retailer is
gonna have more data on the

358
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,120
shopper. So like, what can they
do with that data that's unique

359
00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:36,090
and differentiated and can
create a better experience. So I

360
00:20:36,090 --> 00:20:39,480
think loyalty will be something
to take a look at this year to

361
00:20:39,810 --> 00:20:41,760
relate to this whole in store
experience.

362
00:20:41,910 --> 00:20:44,760
Wendy: And I often think about
the way retailers have talked

363
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:48,330
about loyalty, particularly mass
retailers, not to dump on them,

364
00:20:48,330 --> 00:20:51,930
but is that it's been more of
discount loyalty, you know, it's

365
00:20:51,930 --> 00:20:55,020
been more about okay, I know you
bought this, well, maybe, you

366
00:20:55,020 --> 00:20:57,300
know, yes, you'll buy that. And
it's all about Here's a coupon,

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Here's a coupon, rather than,
you know, that whole picture.

368
00:21:01,170 --> 00:21:03,810
And it sort of talks to where
you got to when you talked

369
00:21:03,810 --> 00:21:07,890
about, you know, consumer 360,
you know, I'm happy to share my

370
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:12,030
data, I'm happy to share my
information, if you give me back

371
00:21:12,030 --> 00:21:16,410
some solutions to things and
please take it off my brain out

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00:21:16,410 --> 00:21:19,350
of my brain. So I don't have to
remember that anymore. So I

373
00:21:19,350 --> 00:21:21,750
think that whole piece and I
can't think what was it called

374
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Amazon dashboards, the thing on
the fridge that told you you're

375
00:21:24,540 --> 00:21:28,920
out of whatever, milk or
something, that thing, p&g did

376
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,140
something with it at one point,
but you know, those sorts of

377
00:21:31,140 --> 00:21:33,360
tools that say to you, you who,
Wendy, you're going to be able

378
00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:35,430
to milk in about two minutes.
And you know, if you don't have

379
00:21:35,430 --> 00:21:37,440
milk for your coffee, tomorrow,
you're going to be really

380
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:42,540
crappy. So that integration of
all of that data that you're

381
00:21:42,540 --> 00:21:47,520
talking about that we're seeing
come to fruition now, that feels

382
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:52,290
like delivered in the right way,
I as a shopper get a much more

383
00:21:52,710 --> 00:21:57,240
personalized experience that
could build my loyalty to

384
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:01,200
whomever. Am I reading that the
right way based on your view

385
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:02,880
from 30,000 feet?

386
00:22:03,180 --> 00:22:06,570
Justin: Absolutely. And that's
why also you're seeing more

387
00:22:06,630 --> 00:22:10,440
technology enablement around
personalization. So what you

388
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,710
might want to buy if you have
bought this before, and beyond

389
00:22:13,710 --> 00:22:15,720
that, using artificial
intelligence and machine

390
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,750
learning about what your buying
patterns are, you're seeing more

391
00:22:18,750 --> 00:22:22,470
and more curated experiences
with the that running in the

392
00:22:22,470 --> 00:22:25,260
background. And that's only
going to increase what now that

393
00:22:25,260 --> 00:22:27,540
you have better technology to
support it.

394
00:22:27,780 --> 00:22:29,940
Wendy: Yeah, I was thinking
about that the other day,

395
00:22:29,940 --> 00:22:32,880
because heaven forbid, sorry, I
actually ordered from Fresh

396
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,060
Direct in the city because they
were the first step at some

397
00:22:36,060 --> 00:22:39,210
point. And what always annoys me
is they give me my list, right

398
00:22:39,210 --> 00:22:41,790
of everything I bought, and the
last whatever I can reorder from

399
00:22:41,790 --> 00:22:45,840
my list, but they haven't
reminded me is you haven't

400
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:49,080
bought this for three months.
And this seems to be your usage

401
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,900
pattern. Don't forget, I'm like,
that's really annoying. Why

402
00:22:51,900 --> 00:22:55,200
don't they do that? So you know,
that sort of now I expect a lot

403
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,680
more from them than just showing
up on time kind of thing with

404
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:00,960
all of that. So there's no
question to that. I'm just

405
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,870
venting because, you know, I
just have you here. And I can

406
00:23:03,870 --> 00:23:06,720
vent on all of that. The last
piece of all of this. I mean,

407
00:23:06,750 --> 00:23:09,240
obviously, there's so many other
things going on. I mean, you

408
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,750
talk about supply chain issues
and things throwing up, you seem

409
00:23:12,750 --> 00:23:17,250
very optimistic about where
things are headed in terms of

410
00:23:17,250 --> 00:23:20,460
some of these macro economic
issues and technology issues.

411
00:23:20,550 --> 00:23:21,540
Did I read that right?

412
00:23:21,660 --> 00:23:26,010
Justin: So I'm not an economist,
I will just say that we're

413
00:23:26,010 --> 00:23:30,090
seeing a lot of investment and
interest in innovation on the

414
00:23:30,090 --> 00:23:34,980
consumer goods side and retail
side. And CPG companies have

415
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,040
really been focused on supply
chain the last two or three

416
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,070
years. So and you can see,
there's not a lot of innovation,

417
00:23:41,070 --> 00:23:43,800
but where the innovation is on
that industries and the new

418
00:23:43,980 --> 00:23:47,280
upstarts, the new food and
beverage brands, the new makers

419
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,430
of small consumer products. And
so there's a lot of excitement

420
00:23:50,430 --> 00:23:54,780
there. And energy. on the retail
side, like I said, last year was

421
00:23:54,780 --> 00:23:58,740
a lot of, hey, can you help us
with inventory, visibility, and

422
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,760
help us even with delivery help
us get on technology, so we can

423
00:24:02,790 --> 00:24:05,550
run some of these things we need
to be running? And I'd say the

424
00:24:05,550 --> 00:24:08,760
last six, eight months, six to
12 months? It's then and now

425
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,430
it's like, what about immersive
experiences? What about

426
00:24:11,430 --> 00:24:14,340
frictionless checkout? What
about using computer vision in

427
00:24:14,340 --> 00:24:17,070
the store? What about leveraging
data analytics in new in

428
00:24:17,070 --> 00:24:20,010
different ways? So the
conversations have shifted,

429
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:24,920
Wendy: that there was so many
logistical pressures on people

430
00:24:24,950 --> 00:24:28,190
over the last couple of years
that we see. That's why I think

431
00:24:28,190 --> 00:24:30,830
we're doing more and more of our
Retail Safari®, people want to

432
00:24:30,830 --> 00:24:33,410
get out either we do them
virtually, and we show them

433
00:24:33,410 --> 00:24:36,440
what's emerging around the world
virtually, if they can't get

434
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:40,370
out, or in a market. Let's go.
Let's go and look at things

435
00:24:40,370 --> 00:24:44,120
around a topic or an issue, as I
said the other day. So you see

436
00:24:44,120 --> 00:24:48,020
that we're sort of getting out
the interest in looking at the

437
00:24:48,020 --> 00:24:51,800
new and solving problems in
innovative ways, which I think

438
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,010
is is the really encouraging
piece. That's also the sort of

439
00:24:55,310 --> 00:24:58,490
recognition of there are a lot
of issues that we need to

440
00:24:58,490 --> 00:25:01,850
address. So let's get to it. and
move forward, which I think is

441
00:25:01,850 --> 00:25:05,090
encouraging between retailers
and manufacturers coming

442
00:25:05,090 --> 00:25:08,480
together to solve, in some ways,
bigger issues, whether it's

443
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,600
health and wellness, whether its
purpose, sustainability, all of

444
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,140
those things bundled up. So I'm
with you, I actually think that,

445
00:25:15,230 --> 00:25:18,290
you know, when you lock us away
for three years, and we go

446
00:25:18,290 --> 00:25:22,100
through terrible times, then
hopefully that spark is still

447
00:25:22,100 --> 00:25:25,010
there to be encouraged. There
are a couple of other things on

448
00:25:25,010 --> 00:25:29,000
my list. One is, you know, of
course, the infamous AI Chat

449
00:25:29,270 --> 00:25:32,990
GPT, which everybody seems to be
like, Oh, my dear, all the

450
00:25:32,990 --> 00:25:37,760
school children now will never
write a report or a summer

451
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:42,800
holiday, something without going
on to ChatGPT, right. So there's

452
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,620
like, oh, the world will fall
apart. I'm like, okay, all

453
00:25:45,620 --> 00:25:48,770
right, seven, another thing. So
that's another topic at hand.

454
00:25:48,770 --> 00:25:51,740
Right. But that just talks to
more AI and different learning?

455
00:25:51,830 --> 00:25:54,020
Is that how you feel it? Or are
you like, Oh, my heavens, the

456
00:25:54,020 --> 00:25:54,920
world is about to end.

457
00:25:55,190 --> 00:25:58,490
Justin: The proof is what you
just said, it's been amazing how

458
00:25:58,490 --> 00:26:03,440
fast that topic has run around
the last couple of weeks, weeks.

459
00:26:03,650 --> 00:26:06,380
And so yeah, I think be
interesting to see, like, early

460
00:26:06,380 --> 00:26:10,790
days, and we're dealing with new
and different technology that no

461
00:26:10,790 --> 00:26:14,090
one has really dealt with so or
had to think about how to

462
00:26:14,210 --> 00:26:17,930
leverage. And so the question
is, like, on things like that,

463
00:26:17,930 --> 00:26:19,670
and even some of the other
technologies we've talked about,

464
00:26:19,670 --> 00:26:25,190
like if you're a legacy or major
retailer, how do you balance the

465
00:26:25,190 --> 00:26:30,380
new shiny object, but also
potential value capabilities

466
00:26:30,380 --> 00:26:34,550
with the fact that you're
sitting on old ERP systems that

467
00:26:34,550 --> 00:26:38,000
are expensive to operate? And
they'll change? You know, how do

468
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,570
you think about customer
experience with some of the new

469
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,570
these new personalization
capabilities? And in the

470
00:26:44,570 --> 00:26:47,420
immersive capabilities, right?
How do you think about that,

471
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,390
when you are balancing that with
some of the operational

472
00:26:50,390 --> 00:26:53,330
challenges of getting inventory
and sourcing and whatnot. So

473
00:26:53,630 --> 00:26:55,760
definitely good to keep an eye
on what's happening in the

474
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,700
market. And then in what you're
seeing is from the retailers

475
00:26:58,700 --> 00:27:01,100
that are doing it? Well, they
are looking, they're

476
00:27:01,100 --> 00:27:03,260
investigating, they're
experimenting, they're trying

477
00:27:03,260 --> 00:27:06,980
things that are days and weeks
of testing, versus months and

478
00:27:06,980 --> 00:27:07,610
years,

479
00:27:07,940 --> 00:27:11,360
Wendy: Are there retailers
around the world, or CPG

480
00:27:11,360 --> 00:27:15,140
companies around the world that
you think are really doing

481
00:27:15,140 --> 00:27:18,500
interesting stuff that we should
all kind of lean into and think

482
00:27:18,500 --> 00:27:18,920
about?

483
00:27:19,130 --> 00:27:21,980
Justin: there. Yeah, there's a
lot of great innovations

484
00:27:21,980 --> 00:27:25,970
happening in the industry.
There's no like, one shining

485
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,450
star, you know, for everything.
But when you think about it,

486
00:27:29,450 --> 00:27:33,170
like for example, some consumer
goods brands have really jumped

487
00:27:33,170 --> 00:27:36,350
in around like this whole
connected factory idea and using

488
00:27:36,350 --> 00:27:39,620
data analytics across factory in
an understanding and being able

489
00:27:39,620 --> 00:27:43,880
to drive better decisions. An
example of a customer on the

490
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,730
retail side that was not happy
with their own point of sale

491
00:27:46,730 --> 00:27:49,970
systems, they develop their own
4000 stores in Carter's. And if

492
00:27:49,970 --> 00:27:53,120
you listen to the CIO from
Carter's, tell that story,

493
00:27:53,210 --> 00:27:56,240
you'll see they said, I'm not
finding what I need here, I'm

494
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,000
gonna go build it in a flexible
way, and then roll it out. And

495
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,790
it's working very well for them
in so many different ways.

496
00:28:01,970 --> 00:28:04,610
Wendy: What you're saying here,
as we look at what we call

497
00:28:04,610 --> 00:28:08,840
Future Shop, and the future of
retail, this is a moment, this

498
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:13,280
is another moment of many, but a
moment when there is huge

499
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,150
opportunity and the ability to
think about these things and

500
00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:23,150
innovative tests, trial and
start refine, stop, go again,

501
00:28:23,270 --> 00:28:26,060
from product new talked about
small brands, and the

502
00:28:26,060 --> 00:28:30,920
opportunity in the CPG space to
develop new products that bring

503
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:35,060
to market you know, through so
many different types of media,

504
00:28:35,270 --> 00:28:38,420
the impact of social, I think
all of those things, you know,

505
00:28:38,420 --> 00:28:41,510
as well as the role of the story
and all of this. So it's

506
00:28:41,540 --> 00:28:44,720
certainly to us. And I think
that's why you and I agree on

507
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,590
most of this is that there's
just this is a moment there for

508
00:28:48,590 --> 00:28:51,980
people to really engage and
define what their future looks

509
00:28:51,980 --> 00:28:54,140
like, or at least test what
their future looks like, and

510
00:28:54,140 --> 00:28:56,930
keep testing and testing and
going. So I think that's the

511
00:28:56,930 --> 00:28:59,990
exciting piece. I will say one
last thing to you, which has

512
00:28:59,990 --> 00:29:05,090
struck me of late, which is in
all of this the role of people

513
00:29:05,270 --> 00:29:08,990
and I mean that particularly in
the role of people in store,

514
00:29:09,350 --> 00:29:12,260
frontline people we learned that
through the pandemic, but the

515
00:29:12,260 --> 00:29:15,560
people who are the brand at the
store level, we were in

516
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:19,310
Cincinnati doing some other
innovation work with retail and

517
00:29:19,310 --> 00:29:22,460
CPG clients and the thing that
stood out to me beyond the

518
00:29:22,460 --> 00:29:26,870
amazing Ocado distribution
center robotics was the people

519
00:29:26,870 --> 00:29:31,730
who staff REI or the store
manager at Five Below and these

520
00:29:31,730 --> 00:29:34,880
people were so passionate about
what they do and love what they

521
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:40,550
do that you realize that's still
old world laying out of hands

522
00:29:40,550 --> 00:29:43,910
makes a difference. So in your
digital world, your view from

523
00:29:43,910 --> 00:29:46,340
the cloud, you have the same
sense of that or

524
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,460
Justin: you know, here's what I
would say yeah, I was just

525
00:29:48,460 --> 00:29:52,420
thinking as we were talking only
two plus years ago the the hot

526
00:29:52,420 --> 00:29:56,110
topic was stores are we're going
to be closing how can we drive

527
00:29:56,110 --> 00:29:59,260
revenue we're having to shift to
all ecommerce because people

528
00:29:59,260 --> 00:30:02,500
aren't going to stores and, you
know, oh my gosh, and we were

529
00:30:02,500 --> 00:30:06,910
counting store closings, if you
remember. And here we are now,

530
00:30:07,180 --> 00:30:11,200
February 2023. And stores are
opening, not they're open, but

531
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,620
they're growing retailers are
investing in experience and in

532
00:30:14,620 --> 00:30:20,350
store and online. E commerce is
level above where it was pre

533
00:30:20,350 --> 00:30:23,650
COVID markets are still opening
around the world that we are

534
00:30:23,650 --> 00:30:27,550
going to see impacts from. And
so my only thought and when I

535
00:30:27,550 --> 00:30:30,130
talked to customers, like make
sure to be thinking about how do

536
00:30:30,130 --> 00:30:35,080
you first don't go back to the
old way of siloed work, but also

537
00:30:35,110 --> 00:30:38,740
position yourself to have the
flexibility to spin things up

538
00:30:38,740 --> 00:30:41,500
and down and try things that
pull back on things more quickly

539
00:30:41,500 --> 00:30:44,230
in the future. So give yourself
some of the flexibility to

540
00:30:44,230 --> 00:30:47,050
operate differently because you
don't know what will be the next

541
00:30:47,050 --> 00:30:51,280
thing. That's the way I've been
thinking about the go forward is

542
00:30:51,340 --> 00:30:53,890
it's great that we're
celebrating a lot of growth and

543
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,530
new experience things and
innovation is just 100% make

544
00:30:56,530 --> 00:30:59,530
sure to position yourself for
flexibility in the future. Well,

545
00:30:59,530 --> 00:30:59,740
that

546
00:30:59,740 --> 00:31:02,530
Wendy: is a perfect wrap up now.
I don't even have to do a wrap

547
00:31:02,530 --> 00:31:06,880
up because you just did it as I
knew you would. So I thank you.

548
00:31:06,910 --> 00:31:10,270
I feel like you're my new best
friend, which is really lovely.

549
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:10,810
So

550
00:31:10,870 --> 00:31:14,350
Justin: I am I'm all in I no I
am thrilled

551
00:31:14,380 --> 00:31:16,840
Wendy: come along on this
journey right of redefining the

552
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,870
future or testing our way
through the future. So thank you

553
00:31:19,870 --> 00:31:21,850
for this Justin. It's really
been a pleasure.

554
00:31:22,030 --> 00:31:24,010
Justin: Yeah, I'm looking
forward to doing it again in the

555
00:31:24,010 --> 00:31:25,240
future. Thanks, Wendy.

556
00:31:25,330 --> 00:31:28,120
Wendy: Indeed. Look forward to
seeing you happy travels, as

557
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:29,830
always, see you in the future.